More Medic Achievement Hate
spotpuff over at the new blog The Theory of Gaming has a nice talk about the new medic gears and the unlocking thereof that is close to my own heart.
Now normally this wouldn’t be such a big deal, but the achievements are not practical at all. Some of them are not achievements you would get if you were playing medic as a team player. For example, needle gunning 50 scouts to death, or bone sawing 50 medics to death. These are NOT things that happen in a regular team fortress game. 99% of the time if you are a medic and you don’t have your medigun out you are doing it wrong. The bone saw has a place in spy killing and last-ditch melee attacks, and the needle gun is useful, just not against scouts. If you needle gun a scout to death the scout either sucks or you got lucky or both, but realistically you should have been healing someone who kills the scout for you. So why did you have the needle gun out in the first place?
Come on Valve! NO MORE! 49 comments and counting from my last rant, none of them really a big fan of the achievement system. Most were against, some grudgingly went along with it just to get the toys.
I think one guy was in support, but he seemed like a bit of an unbalanced nutjob. Probably a career soldier player by the sound of it.
madlep on May 6th 2008 in community, medic, patch, team fortress 2
Stumble it!
[Gib$Ru$-C] Seanthebond responded on 06 May 2008 at 9:01 pm #
The achievements have made the entire game rather chaotic. In the future, Valve had better release the weapons, along with optional achievements, otherwise we are going to see the same thing happen every second month.
Elvis! responded on 06 May 2008 at 11:36 pm #
We should get a list where people could sign that they do not want Valve to include this anymore, and then send it to them. Isn’t there a website for that?
Spotpuff responded on 06 May 2008 at 11:52 pm #
I just read your article and it is better than mine. Plus, it has more pictures.
Anonymuzz responded on 06 May 2008 at 11:54 pm #
Valve should realize that no one out here likes the achievement system.
You really ought’a write an email to them.
Silan responded on 07 May 2008 at 12:35 am #
Im kinda ambivalent about the achievements, but if you wanna make a statement, be sure you know what your talking about. Syring gun is for some reason one of the most effective scout killers out there, and when i own scouts running in my face its nothing to do with luck. Im sure other experienced medics or scouts will agree on this. Just my 2 cents.
Wormbrain responded on 07 May 2008 at 1:12 am #
Elvis!, there are a few websites for creating online petitions.
Unfortunately, online petitions especially and petitions themselves in general mean little to nothing. Write to Valve directly, or post in their forums.
I like the idea of the new weapons. But most of the achievements are pretty lame.
Silan, if you read it again carefully, madlep didn’t make the statement you’re questioning. Still, the syringe gun is not the most effective scout killer. It’s not even close. Sascha is the most effective scout killer. That’s the point Spotpuff makes in his article.
Gehn responded on 07 May 2008 at 1:17 am #
I don’t know, I find myself running away as medic after my help all died (yes, I was healing them) and the things I find chasing me the most are pyros and scouts. But still, shooting at a scout while running away is very different from actively trying to kill them, so the point still stands.
I think that perhaps what would be better for unlocking new weapons would be to take a similar approach as in CoD4, namely giving experience as they play the class. That way whether they get the weapons isn’t proof of their devotion to the achievements but to the class itself.
P. H. responded on 07 May 2008 at 1:19 am #
There was an ongoing thread in the Steam forums… 31 pages and counting.
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=677914
LOOY responded on 07 May 2008 at 1:30 am #
I think the achievements system is fine, it’s the way they set combat achievements for the medic, it’ll be harder for them to **** up in future, unless they give the heavy. “Kill 5 people with your fists in one life”.
Spotpuff responded on 07 May 2008 at 1:37 am #
I have yet to play against a scout dumb enough to run straight into needles. They did patch the needle gun so the needles both move faster and drop more slowly to the ground, but since it lacks an “infinite speed bullet” like a shotgun, pistol, or SMG, or the stopping power of a rocket, grenade or sticky, I still find it’s difficult to kill scouts with it.
Either with me as the medic or scout, I don’t needle or get needled much; scouts are good at evading fire and the needlgun is the worst gun in the game for hitting a target moving perpendicular to your line of fire. So I would argue the point still stands.
madlep responded on 07 May 2008 at 1:47 am #
Yeah, I’m with Spotpuff. The only time a medic should be firing at a scout is when they are back peddling after losing their support - and even then it’s just to harass the scout to make it a bit harder for the scout to kill the medic, and buy some time. You don’t seriously expect to get many kills off it.
A good medic should be looking at what is going on around them and shouldn’t get into that situation too often anyway. It’s not somewhere you want to be.
Making it something that is *encouraged* to do as an achievement is just stupid and goes against all logic and strategy in the game.
Wossname responded on 07 May 2008 at 2:31 am #
I have the suspicion that the needlegun and bonesaw achievements are in the pack to train medics to be more proficient at combat.
HOWEVER,limiting these achievements to attacking only ONE class (Scout, then Medic) entirely overlooks many scenarios where you’ll be defending yourself. If anything, the needlegun achievement should have been attached to killing Pyros, as they seem to be a major Medic + Patient teambuster.
The end result of this achievement crap has been to encourage a reckless (and inefficient in all but the best players’ hands) combat-Medic style of play that has very little to offer in a team environment.
Cap'n Lee responded on 07 May 2008 at 3:34 am #
personally, i just fear for the engineer upgrades.
General Balls responded on 07 May 2008 at 9:08 am #
I have nothing against weapons tied to achievements, as long as the achievements themselves are what a good medic would do in the first place. Thus, theoretically, striving for the weapons makes someone better at the class, which is rewarded with the alternative ways to play it. If that were the case, I’d be all for this.
As it is, some are alright, some are challenging, but still good, and some are outright ridiculous. The Bonesawing and Syringe-gunning should be for classes in general, not tied to just Scouts and Medics. Heavy-punching should *not* be tied to the achievements. Placebo Effect is possible in normal play, but the knowledge of it just makes bad medics play worse. Bah, I’ll stop complaining.
In my opinion, those achievements that seem to be there just for random no-one-cares bullshit fun should be in a category of their own. Ubering a Heavy that punches out people, I’d do that in a game where it didn’t really matter, and neither team cared too much about winning (say a get-together or even some pub matches that just get the right people playing at the right time, where people are mucking around and socialising more than playing). I like the random not-serious-play-at-all achievements as long as they’re there for *fun*, and not tied to unlocking a weapon or something along those lines.
/D/irection responded on 07 May 2008 at 10:32 pm #
I don’t know if i agree entirely, A good medic should be able to do all of it effectively, if the situation arises. If, for example, you are healing someone and they don’t see something you do, do you leave it and just HOPE they see it? On a pub server, i think not…
It’s all about prioritising, which is the main basis of the class. If you can do that well, then those things shouldn’t be a problem.
Still, it doesn’t make the achievments any more valid if a medic can do that. Who really is going to uber a scout in a proper match? I agree with you on those points.
Elvis! responded on 07 May 2008 at 10:56 pm #
This is a bit weird but the earlier comment from ‘Elvis!’ wasn’t from me if you see what I’m saying…..
bit strange. Either a massive coincidence or some weirdo making posts in my name for kicks
/D/irection responded on 07 May 2008 at 11:40 pm #
So many elvis impersonators out there, it’s hard to keep up really.
madlep responded on 07 May 2008 at 11:50 pm #
@Elvis! - yeah, there are some caching issues going on since I upgraded the site to Wordpress 2.5.1.
Long story, but it happens when posts are made without an email see this comment I made yesterday. I’ll hack into the code at the weekend and get it sorted.
supremesonic responded on 08 May 2008 at 5:11 pm #
GET BEHIND ME DOC- Oh.
Bob responded on 09 May 2008 at 1:21 am #
Don’t play medic, do you? Bonesawing medics and needling scouts are both regular occurences in TF2.
Anonymous responded on 10 May 2008 at 3:26 am #
Ubering someone before they get hit by a crit rocket isn’t.
Ubering a heavy and having him FALCON PUNCH four peoeple isn’t.
I hate the achievements, I hate the idea of unlockables, but I love the idea of new weapons. Don’t play medic much, but I will jump with joy for the demoman and scout ones.
Untill I realize I have to get ubered by a medic, bottle five guys, taunt in front of a train, then get crit kukri’d by a sniper with the letter z in his name while singing sweet home alabama to get them.